Forum Replies Created
September 2, 2014 at 7:44 am #10667
Thanks for getting back to me so quick. I am slowly digesting all the info I can from the G2G, but it is great to see so much of this info on Handra compiled in one location. I have not read Esrolia in any great detail yet, and I totally missed the part of Esrolian domination. I was puzzled while the picture of Obrana depicted her in Esrolian-style clothing rather than Malkioni garb, so now I can clearly see the influence of the culture bleed.
So now I’m picturing it was perhaps a dark dank marshy place with some pile homes out over the water (like Laketown in Jackson’s version of The Hobbit), but after the influx of trade from Esrolia it was developed into a thriving city with Esrolian architecture for many of the newer buildings and public works.
It makes sense that the Esrolian dominance declined once the God-King disappeared, and I feel the city would be in its best interests to establish links with The Quinpolic League, otherwise it would be exposed to pirates and other Trade Prince rival activities.
Thank you, this is excellent food for thought…September 2, 2014 at 4:00 am #10661
Whoops – I inadvertently started this thread with the same title as a previous thread I started a month or so ago. I am unsure how to directly contact the forum moderators, but I would be grateful if the moderators could this was just add my posting to my previous ‘Malkioni queries’ thread, there’s no need for me to have multiple threads on the same topic…September 2, 2014 at 3:47 am #10660
I can’t edit my previous post – I meant to write that my previous impressions of Handra were Venetian in flavour, not ‘Ventian’…
– Also, I forgot to ask, is Handra part of The Quinpolic League? I get the impression it could be, but have not seen a direct reference regarding this yet in G2G (or I may have overlooked it).August 27, 2014 at 9:52 pm #10607
Yes that would have been my view, that the Quinpolic League served both military and merchantile purposes for the Seshnegi; and I suspected that the Talars do not play a direct role here, although they obiviously benefit from the profits.
So what caste would the merchants of the Quinpolic League be from, and do they revere a patron of trade? I’m assuming that non-henotheists would not revere Issaries, so I’m wondering if they have their own patron, or just view their role as part of caste duties for Rokari?
I intend to go back to my Blood Over Gold campaign next year, and want to homebrew that book with what I currently know about Maniria from the G2G. The campaign is likely to wander far from the plot points in that book, so I am very intersted in portraying the neighbouring Malkioni regions as close as possible to the current views on The West. If possible I will be taking the campaign to Handra, and possibly up to Safelster. Its very likely that I will also have Seshnegi come into it at some stage, so I’m fascinated by The Malkioni at present, and trying to soak up as much as I can on The West.August 27, 2014 at 2:45 pm #10598
So how does it work in Seshnela? Does the local Talar still broker and facilitate services between the castes in the same way the Brithini Talars do?
Also do they send traders out to the other countries, or do they wait for foreign traders to come to them at Noloswal?
I suspect they would have trade emissaries in Handra?
BTW, Handra would make a great city setting to have detailed…:-)August 25, 2014 at 9:48 pm #10572
Yes I see that Yolanda is the town for the region of Bastis, and sits approximately where Jeff Kyler had the previous town of Bastis, so thats not a big inconsistency. Joral not existing is probably the biggie for the BoG campaign, although its very easy to homebrew back in. I was suprised to see far less islands in the Wenelian Islands chain, but again no big deal. I did like the idea of Jubal Town serving as a kind of ‘thieves town’ or ‘mercenary town’. This doesn’t fit the new description, although some elements of that could be easily ruled back in to an extent. But as far as a full-on ‘thieves town’, its probably more logical to tie that in with Smelch, given that it is a known haven for pirates ( I presume it still is – I need to check the G2G).
I presumed that the Trader Princes were Henotheists whose ancestors originated from Safelster. Seems logical that their ties were from the eastern regions, given the influence of Issaries. I love the way that neighbouring cultures influence each other in Glorantha, this makes the world feel so much more realistic, and is similar to historical cultures.
So if Malkioni worship Issaries in Safelster, Handra, and The New Coast, then who do the other Malkioni traders revere for a trade patron?
The Rokari of Seshnela would still engage in trade practices I believe, as I suspect the Hrestoli of Loskalm would also do. Issaries would probably seem a bit like a ‘Jabberer Religion’ to me; I assume that they have an Ascended Master or a patron hero who they revere for trade blessings and the like?August 25, 2014 at 1:12 pm #10564
Fair enough. Well at least the G2G is out now, and hopefully its presence will stop these issues happening in future.
If Trekkies can come to terms with the fact that the new Star Trek films have blown up the planet Vulcan, then I’m sure I can come to terms with some setting changes to Glorantha 🙂
Now that aside, I see that the Trader Princes now worship Issaries, and revere Caselain is a patron hero.
So is this only in Maniria, or do Malkioni traders all across The West revere Issaries? If not, who do they revere instead?
Also, do they consider Issaries to be an Ascended Master (or equal to such), thus keeping the Invisible God as Supreme Being? Or do they worship Issaries as a Deity, in a similar fashion to how theistic cultures would? The later would put them at odds with all the other Malkioni I suspect (except the Henotheists)August 24, 2014 at 9:46 pm #10552
Well, the things I listed above make it hard to continue to use it as written, and also be consistent with the setting described in G2G.
I have that game in hiatus however, we have been doing other settings for the past twelve months and I was wanting to return to the Trader Prince setting for a few sessions. I have prepared the players for some changes in Malkioni trappings and they are on board with that. I was not prepared for the drastic changes in geography, having a city disappear was unexpected.
I guess I am just curious how a product was published that was so different to the visions of Greg Stafford. Blood Over Gold is quite a rich campaign, but I just didn’t think so much of it would be at a disparity with what is now canon Glorantha.
But its nothing I can’t salvage however. I’ll just homebrew a mix between the book and G2G to come up with something that works. I doubt Moon Design will reboot Maniria with a new regional book or campaign, so I figure whatever I come up with will be gospel for my troupe in any case.August 24, 2014 at 1:35 pm #10549
Just out of interest, I’m wondering how there was such a disparity with the content from Blood Over Gold and the content from the G2G. I understand that G2G is in keeping with Greg Stafford’s vision of Glorantha, but I also see his name as a contributor for Blood Over Gold as well, although its unclear how much direct involvement he had with that project.
I’m just wondering if in recent years Greg changed his view of Malkioni (and some Western geography), or if the G2G is more like his original views, and somehow the Malkioni were misinterpreted by other writers (and illustrators) along the way.
I do very much prefer the flavour of Malkioni in the G2G, as they feel much more unique and Gloranthan than some previous interpretations. I’m certainly not criticizing anything here, I’m just interested to know how these things eventuated.August 24, 2014 at 12:34 pm #10547
I absolutely love my hard copy of The Guide To Glorantha, the book is beautiful, and the content is something I have wanted for the last 25 years. An absolute masterpiece!
But that I have my hardcopy of G2G its much clearer to see that the Blood Over Gold campaign is going to be hard to salvage.
I can deal with the previously Venetian-style Malkioni Trader Princes now being portrayed more along the lines of early Byzantine Empire types (or something closer to that), but its a bit of a bitter pill to swallow when the actual geography itself has radically changed with some regions.
The Manirian coastline differs somewhat – there are now much less Wenelian Islands, and Jubal Town has a very different description, its no lawless ‘free town’ anymore, but it appears to be a Trader Prince holding, to name a few changes. In some places entire towns have disappeared, and new ones added – the town of Bastis replaced by the town of Yolanda, for instance, or the fact that Highwater is no longer a ruined city, but a thriving current settlement.
I’m a little unsure now if the native population of Fay Jee is even the same. In the setting they are the Pure Citizens, which are a mainland variant (and more urbanised version) of the same people that live in the islands. Now I’m unsure if they are Theylans like the Solanthi or the Ditali, as there is no mention of another type of culture still existing in pockets along the coastline. Although they are easily written back in for the sake of consistency with the previous setting.
Perhaps one of the biggest issues in regards to the Blood Over Gold campaign is the complete absence of the city of Joral, seat of House Jhoraz. Given that the villain of the campaign is Prince Barthol of House Jhoraz, the absence of the city on the map is somewhat disheartening.
Again, nothing that can’t be salvaged somewhat, I guess its now very much YGWV. I will just have to keep the city of Joral where it is in order to maintain some consistencies with the campaign.
Its great to finally have a resource that is considered canon, its just a bit of a disappointment that so much of the content of Blood Over Gold is now obsolete. A bit hard to recommend it to newcomers now unfortunatelyAugust 11, 2014 at 9:58 pm #10389
That sounds great Jeff, I really am looking forward to the upcoming Gods Book, for many reasons!
PS: Just requesting for you to possibly consider a Safelster campaign setting book down the track, you know, in all that free time you guys have in between The Guide, The Gods Book, the Hendreiki book, etc heh heh – just putting it out there 🙂August 11, 2014 at 2:45 am #10360
I would love to see Nolos/Castle Coast, Sesnela, Arolant all detailed, at least a touch more than in the Guide, but the Guide is reasonable.
Safelster, on the other hand, offers so much possibilities for player-characters, and definitely deserves a regional source book of it’s own.
My Malkioni wish list of sourcebooks would be:
2. Janube City States
3. Handra and The New Coast (although if this is left too long I will probably homebrew it, and thus would want another sourcebook, non-Malkioni, like Esrolia perhaps…maybe even Teshnos)August 11, 2014 at 2:37 am #10359
I love the pdf but can only skim until I get the actual book in my hands, I think my brain digests the content better with ‘physical’ books.
Yes, very interesting this concept of ‘Jabberers’ – so foreigners are under the protection of the ruling Talars – I guess its up to the ruler if someone becomes a slave or not, or if they remain as ‘guests’ in their settlements.
Lots of possibilities for a devious GM to play around with here…
Thanks for the reference Jeff, any input from the authors are greatly appreciated!August 10, 2014 at 12:03 am #10342
I’m not surprised that Blood Over Gold is no longer canon. For a start the Malkioni are illustrated as visual anologies of Venetian Empire types, which simply clashes with the ancient flavour of Malkioni in the Guide.
It’s a very rish setting for ideas however, and one I would hate to dismiss. I can easily portray the Trader Princes there more in keeping with the descriptions from the Guide, and the setting is quite easy to salvage for a campaign.
Hopefully if it is no longer canon then it would be nice for Moon Design NOT to bring out a supplement covering the region, or only do it with broad brush strokes. This way individual GMs have the freedom to portray the region their way.
I would love, however, to see Moon Design bring out Malkioni supplements on a par with the excellent Sartar and Pavis resources that they currently produce (amazing level of rich detail in these books).
I would love to see Handra done in this way, and Safelster, Seshnela, Castle Coast etc. Having definitive resources on these settings would be great, and I could easily fit my own version of the Trader Princes of Maniria into the setting knowing that my own creation is kinda consistent with the setting itself.August 9, 2014 at 11:07 am #10330
I agree with Ufnal about not substituting Ashara with Issaries, at least as cults. Perhaps Ashara was actually Issaries, or vice versa, but as far as cults go I would think that the two would be viewed separately. That way my Blood Over Gold book hasn’t become totally obsolete 🙂