Forum Replies Created
March 27, 2014 at 8:35 pm #7200
There are reasons the dwarves are not as central to my thinking
a) I don’t get dwarves
b) The Er’oring wilds are 400 mile away from Greatway
c) Greatway is right next to Dragori Inkarth, Tarsh, the Aldur Chur Confederation all of which are currently in bubbeling over.
d) Mostali act in a manner which makes interesting pc interaction difficult.
ie 4000 iron dwarves stomping across the danger ground towards the troll hills isn’t a good pc encounter.March 27, 2014 at 8:25 pm #7197
Have you been drinking the coolaid Jeff?March 27, 2014 at 8:15 pm #7194
One of the reasons I see the elves in the ascendancy in the elder wilds.
However if a new troll war leader was to arise about now things would get very interesting as the hero wars hot up.March 27, 2014 at 8:07 pm #7192
So was sorcery big in the EWF? With both Pavis and Delecti as significant sorcerers from the EWF. or is it that the guys whose memory remain happen to have not been dragon magicians?March 27, 2014 at 7:54 pm #7190
The troll elf things in the elder wilds is nicely balanced and really interesting, I have not read the Guide stuff so I may be amiss but I see it like this.
We have many more trolls but no unified force, i’ve split 430,000 trolls into over 1000 clan sized groups with 30 – 40% in structured tribes, many in competition or open conflict with each other.
This against 80,000 elves working in a coordinated fashion, with structured groves, plant defences, more potent magic and warriors of wood. I think the elves have upper hand.
To understand the history and them inflicting serious losses upon the elves I think trolls need to have been more structured, unified and better lead previously.
So we will see significant troll hero’s arising though there history and gathering the tribes and clans.
I’d also build a couple of barbarian level troll tribes around the larger temples and religious sites in the troll hills.
That is how I currently am making it work in my mind.Quote:Quote from Jeff Richard on March 27, 2014, 19:07
That is absolutely right. And this is a big part of the reason the elves of the Elder Wilds innately hate the dwarves and the trolls. Both races willfully destroyed not one but several Great Trees. And not in the God Time, but within the last thousand years. I suspect the elves of the Elder Wilds hate the trolls as much as the elves of Talastar and Fronela hate the Lunars.March 27, 2014 at 7:36 pm #7188
I have never got my head inside the Mostali mindset yet, I can get the motivations of elves and trolls and building a history there is very possible.
Mostali I just draw a blank on.
I can see strong defensive postures, and dwarf troll wars are very getable, but I can’t fathom any reason for them to march on elven forests, then retreat out of the space.Quote:Quote from Jeff Richard on March 27, 2014, 19:07
And the dwarves. Mustn’t forget the dwarves. They marched out of Greatway down the Vale of Hammers with iron and cut down the Great Trees without even provocation.March 27, 2014 at 7:23 pm #7187
Dwarves and EWF men.
However lack of bronze would have created an issue there.
that does lead me to a question, if the EWF was based on draconian magic why does Pavis become sorcery based which is more the God Learner Vibe?Quote:Quote from Niall on March 27, 2014, 19:06
Who would have done the smithing work in the original city of Pavis, Sorcerers ?March 27, 2014 at 7:20 pm #7186
To be fair I was thinking of that.
I’m also sure there would odd pockets of small scale tinkering and minor casting,But generally speaking it would not be the norm in Prax.
I’m no expert on bronze working, but I am also sure that good grade weapons would not be made that way.
The point I made about mindset though is the most interesting one, to a 21st century mindset change and innovation is good thing and normal, to many Gloranthan mindsets, its dangerous alien and scary.
I’m playing again for the first time in a while and my characters is currently in a God learner ruin, and he petrified of being contaminated and cursed by this advanced magic. Fear of any innovation is very common in 3rd age Glorantha.Quote:Quote from Niall on March 27, 2014, 18:15Quote:Quote from Jon Hunter on March 27, 2014, 15:18
Cart heavy kit required round as a nomadic people
Though I get the other points you made I don’t understand the heavy kit you’re talking about.
The crucible is as big as you need it. Tiny for an axe for example. The moulds are small too and made from clay. The bellows are small hide bags and the fire more often than not a hole in the ground. (I’ve seen it done)
I sometimes think people are imagining a much later time when talking about casting bronze age kit. Anvils and forges etc.March 27, 2014 at 6:34 pm #7182
I appreciate its opinion, but having a human responsible for the wilful destruction of a great tree, creates a culture shock deep in there conciousness, which for me roots the elvish distrust of humans in something significant and substantial. Similar to feel the elves have towards the Lunars after the Moonburn.
I think the lack of human history in the elder wilds creates an opportunity for a much richer history of the elder races.March 27, 2014 at 5:55 pm #7180
I can see creative players wanting to do this, I could see young tribesmen wanting to do this to.
However the practicalities of will make it unviable for both in the long run.
I think one thing we have all done as younger players is try to write modern invention and innovation driven attitudes into a fantasy campaign.Quote:Quote from Niall on March 27, 2014, 17:27
All fair points that I had considered and agree with on the most part..Quote:Quote from Jeff Richard on March 27, 2014, 12:23Most tribes may have a lineage or two that know how to recast old bronze vessels and tools.
But if they can do that, it’s not that a big step to learn how to make a clay mould for a bronze sword, lance point or arrow heads. Bronze age forges weren’t big. Carting stone moulds would be a pain for sure, but that’s what clay is for.
Fuel would be a problem, but then what else is your out of work Oakfed shaman used for?
And they aren’t moving all year round, are they? I’m sure when pasture is found they stop for a few days and for longer during other times of the year.
If they (braves) steal bronze it’s no good to them if its ploughshares and other agricultural tools, and who is going to trade Bronze weapons to a bunch of nomads who will probably use them on you next week?
I’m interested in this as one of my nomad players suggested heading off to Pavis to learn the trade, which would probably take the next ten years of his life to master, if anyone would even teach him.March 27, 2014 at 4:30 pm #7177
Tracked down the source of that, MRQ – guide to the Aldyami. So lets put in the realms of opinion, runmor or legend.
To be fair I like it, its gives a big reason for a big change. It also would create a certain mindset in Aldryami of the elder wilds.March 27, 2014 at 3:18 pm #7176
Ok Compare the two options
a) Steal or trade for the items you want
a) Steal or trade for the the bronze ore which is rarer in this area than the items
Learn the skills to make initially at very low quality
Cart heavy kit required round as a nomadic people
Make it economically viable
Overcome cultural and religious issues
which do you think makes more sense?Quote:Quote from Niall on March 27, 2014, 12:04
So why have the nomads not learned the art of smithing? Or captured a smith or paid one to work for them?
I understand there is no bronze found in Prax or the Wastes, but they can trade for it yes? Or is that all to civilised and against everything they stand for?March 27, 2014 at 3:07 pm #7174
Was it Arkat who trashed those forests at the end of the first age and did he destroy a Great Trees of Shanassee?
Would it also be plausible to place a still surviving great tree in er’oring wilds?
I assume the site of the great tree that was destroyed would be a special and interesting site?Quote:Quote from Jeff Richard on March 27, 2014, 10:50
We left the river unnamed since we concluded that Malara’s River is not the name it is known by the Zarkosings or Pentans.
The forests around the Elf Sea are the remnants of what was once the vast elf forest of the Elder Wilds. The were largely destroyed in the Second Age, recovered somewhat near the end of that age, and then the aldryrami were eradicated again. In the Third Age, Pentans did graze beyond those woods (but did not burn the forests), but since the Nights of Horror, they’ve not been seen south of the river.
I’d say those forests have been pretty wild for at six centuries. The elves have not been able to recover those woods, but I have heard rumors of aldryami patrols in the forests around the Elf Sea, and bands of elves planting strange seeds, guarding the planting for a while, then moving on. Some fear the elves are preparing great magic to reawaken their forests and have them grow rapidly throughout the Elder Wilds.March 27, 2014 at 2:58 pm #7173
In my understanding of GM I am sticking 75 – 80% of the elves in Er’oring wilds, which is pure elven heartland, where they hold power. I also place almost all the brown elves in that forest
I’m placing the rest spread out over other woodlands, not as overlords but as a presence. Woods that old will have groves and dryads in them and I don’t see the elves abandoning them completely. I will also run with a reforestation plot as the hero wars kick off.
So those woods I would see as territory which may have elves in but is not controlled by elves.
I also see those woods as a site where they may be the odd balzaring like clan which is unattached to any citadel, red lands refuges, pockets of chaos nasties, troll hunting parties, maybe the odd pentian.
They vast no mans lands where no ones holds sway, but small groups of a variety of critters can be found.Quote:Quote from Roko Joko on March 26, 2014, 21:31
I’m interested in the stretch of forest along the branch of the Acos west of Griffin Mountain (IIRC that river branch had a name in GM but does not in the Guide.) The forest is a large area and has not been described in print.
I want to have some cool stuff in there. I have a hobby of thinking about Hero Wars-era game ideas for the greater Pent area. My general idea of that time and region is apocalyptic, and one idea sets PCs in a clan of Zarkosings trying to survive Pentan aggression and other problems. I imagine that one option would be to go into those woods and try to live there, possibly as subjects of elves or whatever else is already there.
Are there elves in that forest? There could be, although the Guide suggests that there aren’t, really. I don’t think it would be hard for the elves to walk across the space of open land where Griffin Mountain is, or to live in that forest. And according to the Guide map conventions, it’s a dense forest, not a sparse one.
You could justify an absence of elves from those woods, as Jeff suggested on the previous page and I think the Guide text suggests as well, by saying that the elves in the forests along the mountains have magic power centers / defenses / whatever there, and not in the forest along the river. I’d buy that.
I’m not sure it matters much, though. If you want elves there you can put them there. I might do that.
Or maybe talking animals or something. Something cool that keeps out elves and people.
There could be trolls, although I think GM and the Guide are noncommital-to-negative about saying that there are.
I don’t really think there are many or any humans there. I mean, you could certainly make up some human inhabitants if you want them. But they’re dense forests not suited to goat herding, and based on the way Garst and Jarsting are labeled on the maps, I understand the bulk of the Zarkosing population to be downriver of that forest and/or on the western side of the Acos. Likewise, the forests are not suitable for Pentans or Redlands farmers, although they could be suitable for specific Lunar exile communities.March 26, 2014 at 5:07 pm #7162
I’ll take that, saying as 13,000 is a ridiculously small number for an area that large.
I was just reading the Greg article yesterday and noticed his figure.Quote:Quote from Jeff Richard on March 26, 2014, 16:03
Page 249 of the Glorantha Classic version – since the original had 202 pages. Given that Greg’s far more detailed (but likely later) population figures contradicts that essay (which was not in the original GM), I’d suspect that Greg forgot a zero there.