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  • #6234

    I can see why this is going to be some Cults of Prax like collection covering most of the defining myths. Unlike the guide, this doesn’t promise to tell you all that is known about gloranthan myth, but a good selection of defining myths and cults/religions insome depth that will allowyou to get gloranthan magic and worship right.

    I would like to see some name-dropping for each of the mythical ages in addition to those main protagonists, though.

    Since it is the basis for having three unrelated otherworlds, I would expect an in depth explanation and description of the “colliding worlds” of the quarters, creating the mixed inner world. Probably somewhere green or golden age.

    The EWF chapter hopefully will cover some mystical questing, too.

    Despite the usually high standard of mythical immersion with gloranthaphiles, some section “sacrifice for dummies” might be a good idea. And polytheism and animism, while we’re at it – things very far from the usual spiritual experience of 20th or 21st century city boys. Something to get people understand how and why these things are important and part of the daily lives of their characters, though not necessarily anthropowanking.

    #6235
    Profile photo of David Paul
    David Paul
    Spectator

    I’m interested in running a Lunar campaign, and there are three things, in particular, that I’d find helpful:

    1) A clear discussion of the differences and relationships between Illumination, Sevening and Enlightenment.
    2) A clear discussion of who is allowed to worship/initiate/devote to which aspects of Yelm. (And, to a lesser extent, the other Dara Happan gods.)
    3) Discussion of the differences between Theist, Animist, and Sorcerous Heroquesting, as well as Lunar Travel & Journey.

    Thanks — I’m looking forward to the Kickstarter!

    #6236
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    If you really have questions about Heroquesting, differences in Illuminations, questions about specific gods, then it’s wiser to start that as a new topic where you can expect a quickish reply from Jeff & Co rather than wait impatiently several months for a book.

    I’ll attempt my responses in a new post.

    #6242
    Profile photo of Simon Phipp
    Simon Phipp
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Dan Barker on November 15, 2013, 10:14

    Quote:
    Quote from Peter Metcalfe on November 14, 2013, 21:10
    My thots

    I would rework it like:

    GREEN AGE: Kyger Litor

    My Comment: Kyger is here along with the other Elder Races as her peak time is the bliss of Wonderhome.

    OK, I see your point but I disagree. During the Green Age may have been her peak time, but Uzdom is divorced from the greater world, with only Zorak Zorans burning showing any interaction with outside forces. For World Mythology she only has an impact once her people are forced into the outside world. She is placed when her cult had the greatest impact.

    The Man Rune was definitely created by the Celestial Court, which makes it Golden Age, in my opinion. Kyger Litor is only powerful as Mother of the Trolls, so that would make her a Golden Age deity. As Dan points out, she has most impact on the world after Yelm burns Wonderhome, i.e. the Storm Age.

    #6252
    Profile photo of Dan Barker
    Dan Barker
    Spectator

    So, let me get this straight. Most of you would rather have a book that covers a wider selection of Gods than a book that tracks the change of cultic thought that ended up with how the Lunar Empire came to be? I’m a little disappointed.

    I for one would rather have this than a simple cults compendium.

    #6254
    Profile photo of Jonathan Geere
    Jonathan Geere
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Dan Barker on November 17, 2013, 13:06
    So, let me get this straight. Most of you would rather have a book that covers a wider selection of Gods than a book that tracks the change of cultic thought that ended up with how the Lunar Empire came to be? I’m a little disappointed.

    I for one would rather have this than a simple cults compendium.

    Oh, so it’s the Gods of the Lunar Empire Book. I didn’t quite realise. I thought it was the Cults of Prax and Dragon Pass. Now I know! 😉

    #6255
    Profile photo of Martin Helsdon
    Martin Helsdon
    Spectator

    It would be interesting if the book included an in-world travelogue much like Cults of Prax or Terror, to provide a view from the perspective of a different Gloranthan culture, or perhaps more than one, of the various cults. However, given the diversity of cults intended this would be tricky. Maybe, for example, an Orlanthi view of lowland Pelorian cults and vice versa? Or a Genertelan visiting Pamaltela?

    #6256
    Profile photo of Dan Barker
    Dan Barker
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Jonathan Geere on November 17, 2013, 14:52
    Oh, so it’s the Gods of the Lunar Empire Book. I didn’t quite realise. I thought it was the Cults of Prax and Dragon Pass. Now I know! 😉

    😛 No, it is a book about how Gloranthan religion changes over time. Unlike other (fantasy) worlds religion is malleable in Glorantha. A simple book of cults will not be able to show this correctly. In this book (I hope) the cult of Orlanth should be noticably different from the Cult write up in Sartar:KoH because:

      a) it will either be an earlier “more pure” cult,
      b) it will be the version worshipped in Ralios or Umathela to show cultic differences and
      c) straight reprints of that material is pointless.

    Sure, I emphasised the Lunar aspect. That’s because they are the greatest exponents of iconotropy since the GodLearners.
    Yes, it would be nice to have a whole new bunch of cults (which we are getting), but that wouldn’t explain how the the Lunars, for example, were able to weave their composite goddess into mythic whole of Glorantha.

    #6258
    Profile photo of Simon Phipp
    Simon Phipp
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Dan Barker on November 17, 2013, 13:06
    So, let me get this straight. Most of you would rather have a book that covers a wider selection of Gods than a book that tracks the change of cultic thought that ended up with how the Lunar Empire came to be? I’m a little disappointed.

    Yep, wider selection of gods and goddesses for me, please.

    Quote:
    I for one would rather have this than a simple cults compendium.

    Where do you start and where do you end?

    Cults such as Kyger Litor are fairly simple, as they do not change much at all. However, Golden Age Kyger Litor has no Uxko, just UzUz, later versions have UzUz, Uzko and Cave Trolls, even later have Uzkin and Uzdo. Each would have had an effect on the Kyger Litor cult, but does it really matter? I would prefer a single page, or couple of paragraphs showing this rather than an entire book dealing with the changes.

    The major cult in the Lunar Empire doesn’t change much at all. Yelm was the Emperor and still is the Emperor. The change of cultic thought doesn’t really happen, except for “Ah, the Red Goodess is a descendant of Aether Primolt” and “The Red Emperor is a manifestation of Yelm”. This could be covered in a couple of paragraphs.

    The other Dara Happan and Pelorian deities also do not change a great deal. What changes are the new kids on the block, the Lunar Deities. They change how their worshippers s#deal with the existing deities and may slightly change the focus of worship of those existing deities, but they do not change the entire outlook of an empire.

    Quote:
    Quote from Dan Barker on November 17, 2013, 17:56

    Quote:
    Quote from Jonathan Geere on November 17, 2013, 14:52
    Oh, so it’s the Gods of the Lunar Empire Book. I didn’t quite realise. I thought it was the Cults of Prax and Dragon Pass. Now I know! 😉

    😛 No, it is a book about how Gloranthan religion changes over time. Unlike other (fantasy) worlds religion is malleable in Glorantha. A simple book of cults will not be able to show this correctly. In this book (I hope) the cult of Orlanth should be noticably different from the Cult write up in Sartar:KoH because:

      a) it will either be an earlier “more pure” cult,
      b) it will be the version worshipped in Ralios or Umathela to show cultic differences and
      c) straight reprints of that material is pointless.

    Sure, I emphasised the Lunar aspect. That’s because they are the greatest exponents of iconotropy since the GodLearners.
    Yes, it would be nice to have a whole new bunch of cults (which we are getting), but that wouldn’t explain how the the Lunars, for example, were able to weave their composite goddess into mythic whole of Glorantha.

    Showing how a cult is worshipped differently by different cultures is fine. I am not sure if we need a whole cult writeup for each version of the cult, probably not. A paragraph showing the differences might be OK.

    I am not sure that earlier versions of cults are “purer”. Certainly not in the case of Orlanth. The cult of Orlanth has been changed drastically several times, resulting in the formation of the Orlanth Rex cult, for example. But do we need a series of essays telling us how the priests wrested power from the chiefs and how that power was then formalised after the fall of the EWF? Not really. Again, a couple of paragraphs should suffice.

    #6263
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    Given that Gods of Glorantha 2.0 is based on Belintar’s Book, I’ve a feeling the Gods will be rather monomythed. Instead of describing the cultic variations in different places (something like the Cult of Lodril in the Cult Compendium), it will describe the runes of the cult, mention the different names of the deities in different places (ie in Fonrit, Orlanth is known as Baraku) and present a sample feat or magic from these places.

    But the focus of the cult is said be the mythical side and heroquesting of the Cult. So for Orlanth, you would have a description of Storm Home. Then for the myths you would have “Orlanth becomes King of the Gods” with a list of places in the Heroplanes where Orlanth kicked arse. Then for the Lightbringers Quest, you would have in addition to the myths a list of the places where Orlanth’s arse was kicked. Probably attached to the mythic places is a list of runic virtues needed to excel while following Orlanth’s footsteps. Perhaps one myth/road for each age in which the God was active, so Orlanth Golden: Kill Yelm, Storm: Become King of the Gods, Chaos: Lightbringers’ Quest

    That way the insights of Harmast and Arkat really become important to the book.

    #6264
    Profile photo of Dan Barker
    Dan Barker
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Simon Phipp on November 17, 2013, 20:38

    Where do you start and where do you end?

    Well, I do see your point, and I don’t mean “let’s have an extensive write up that covers all the minutiae”. Frankly, I’d not want to read that, and I very much doubt Jeff wants to write that.
    But I would be interested in, say, the Umathela aspect of Orlanth. It would be significantly different then the Sartarite version as the needs of it’s worshippers are different. It would play up interaction with Aldrya and hurricane Vadrudi for instance. It would have subsumed local storm deities as they were revealed to have been Orlanth all along. Heck even a Ralian write up of Orlanth would show large differences. We have no idea what Orlanth looks like outside of Sartar.

    Has there been a HQ write up of Kyger Litor? I know we were spammed with her cult during the RQIII days, but I suspect the HQ write up will be a completely different beast. My guess is it will be much more of a spirit cult, so will give readers a good handle on how ancestor worship works. It will be interesting to compare it to the human Daka Fal tradition.

    Quote:
    Simon Phipp
    I am not sure that earlier versions of cults are “purer”. Certainly not in the case of Orlanth. The cult of Orlanth has been changed drastically several times, resulting in the formation of the Orlanth Rex cult, for example. But do we need a series of essays telling us how the priests wrested power from the chiefs and how that power was then formalised after the fall of the EWF? Not really. Again, a couple of paragraphs should suffice.

    Well, I’d say the Theyalan Missionaries were fairly unified in their preaching, but I get your point.

    I would say that I don’t see a reason to bang people over the head with a lot of this. You describe screeds on the minutiae, I think a lot could be implied. We know that the cult of Yelm has changed substantially, but clings to the veneer of its’ unchanging nature. The Red Emperor is only the last in a line of figures who have injected themselves into his cult. I think it is telling that Kargzant might get a look in. No cults have resisted the passage of time (unless you are a Brithini).

    Look, I agree that it would be nice to have a wider range of gods, but if it breaks the overall structure of the book for basic inclusivity, I’d prefer a focused manuscript with its’ exclusivity.

    #6268
    Profile photo of Roko Joko
    Roko Joko
    Spectator

    “We have no idea what Orlanth looks like outside of Sartar.” Well, I’ve seen names and hints.

    I’d love to see myth and cult variation illustrated in this book. Generously, even. I think it could add a lot of color, communicate an important thing about the setting, and help people invent their own variations.

    “Has there been a HQ write up of Kyger Litor?” HW, In the Unspoken Word troll book.

    #6287
    Profile photo of Tim Ellis
    Tim Ellis
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Charles Corrigan on November 15, 2013, 14:17

    Maybe letting the next foundational work from Moon Design get so big that the publication queue stalls for 18 months is not the optimal plan? It may be better for both publishers and purchasers if there is enough goodness left in the Pamaltelan and East Isles gods to warrant a later publication of Gods volume 2?

    One of the arguments for revisiting Sartar & Prax is that this is where the majority of fans are interested in, so it may be that a book of non-central Genertelan Gods would be harder to Kickstart on it’s own.

    That said, a series of books, delivered alongside the other books on the publication list would certainly be preferable to another long period with nothing at all!

    #6288
    Profile photo of Tim Ellis
    Tim Ellis
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Dan Barker on November 17, 2013, 13:06
    So, let me get this straight. Most of you would rather have a book that covers a wider selection of Gods than a book that tracks the change of cultic thought that ended up with how the Lunar Empire came to be? I’m a little disappointed.

    Well, I’d like both! But they are two different books. One is the sort of “Game Supporting” publication that Moon Design promised to produce when they took on the licence, the other is the sort of book that belongs in the Stafford Library, deep background that provides inspiration.

    #6291
    Profile photo of Dan Barker
    Dan Barker
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Tim Ellis on November 21, 2013, 17:19
    Well, I’d like both! But they are two different books. One is the sort of “Game Supporting” publication that Moon Design promised to produce when they took on the licence, the other is the sort of book that belongs in the Stafford Library, deep background that provides inspiration.

    Well, I think there could be a middle ground, a playable “game supporting” book, that also has a second function to show the dynamics of Gloranthan mythic reality, but you maybe right.

    Playable should always come first for a game book 😀

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