Home Forums Glorantha Glorantha Discussions Working on the Gods of Glorantha

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  • #5268
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    Hey all, while Rick is feverishly doing the layout of the Guide to Glorantha and Ian is putting the art list for The Coming Storm before I hack it apart, I’m working on a few other projects. Three are secret, and will be mentioned soon, but one is public knowledge: the Gods of Glorantha.

    This book follows the structure of Belintar’s Book, and unifies Gloranthan mythology through a series of distinct and separate myths, which are periodically interrupted by in-depth descriptions of about 40 Glorantha cults. The idea is to present the mythology of Glorantha through the cults and arrange them, not by pantheon, but by thematic Age. So here they are:

    Green Age: Korgatsu, Mostal, Ernalda, Aldrya, Eiritha

    Likely Stretch Goals: Asrelia, Ty Kora Tek, Oria

    Golden Age: Yelm, Lodril, Buserian, Malkion

    Likely Stretch Goals: Daruda, Entekos

    Storm Age: Humakt, Annhila, Orlanth, Magasta, Polaris, Daka Fal

    Likely Stretch Goals: Shargash, Artmal, Oslira, Kabalt, Wachaza

    Darkness Age: Kyger Litor, Argan Argar, Zorak Zoran, Yelmalio

    Likely Stretch Goals: Babeester Gor, Maran Gor

    Chaos Age: Unholy Trio, Ompalam, Storm Bull

    Likely Stretch Goals: Seseine, Gark, Krarsht, Vivamort

    Lightbringers Interlude: Issaries, Lhankhor Mhy, Chalana Arroy, Eurmal

    Grey Age: Pamalt, Horned Man, Waha

    Likely Stretch Goals: Kargzant, Telmor

    Dawn Age: Heroes, Harmast, Nysalor, Arkat, Harmast (HeroQuesting and Illumination)

    Second Age: God Learners and EWF (Experimental HeroQuesting and modern Malkionism)

    Third Age: Godunya, Red Goddess, Seven Mothers, Hwarin Dalthippa, Hon-eel

    Likely Stretch Goals Dormal

    I realize that this does not cover every cult people might be interested in. The East Isles and Pamaltela get short shrift, while Prax gets over-represented. But I am simply not up to writing another 600+ page book, and would like to get something with a more reasonable page count out!

    As always, your thoughts are welcome!

    #6204
    Profile photo of Emmanuel Ponette
    Emmanuel Ponette
    Spectator

    Jeff, do you sleep sometimes? Or did you make a pact with Vivamort? 😉

    Very good news indeed. As my future campaign will take place in Pamaltela, I surely am sad that this region is under represented. If I can do anything to motivate you (beers and chocolate from Belgium can be a good motivation 😉 ), just tell me. But I totally understand you and thank you in advance for all the work done.

    Any date for this book?

    #6205
    Profile photo of Newt Newport
    Newt Newport
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on November 14, 2013, 13:01
    I am simply not up to writing another 600+ page book, and would like to get something with a more reasonable page count out!

    ha ha Jeff 🙂 I remember Sartar Kingdom of Heroes when it was a 100 page Cults of Sartar book ;)

    Inevitable and well anticipated 🙂

    #6206
    Profile photo of Martin Hawley
    Martin Hawley
    Spectator

    will be interesting to see how the worship of those deities we think we know has changed over time

    #6207
    Profile photo of Jim Groves
    Jim Groves
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on November 14, 2013, 13:01
    But I am simply not up to writing another 600+ page book, and would like to get something with a more reasonable page count out!

    As always, your thoughts are welcome!

    I am content with this list, though not unsympathetic to those who run games in the E.I. and Pamaltela. It’s just that this list will serve a lot of the community well, and like the Guide to Glorantha, might get some really required information out to GMs and prospective freelancers.

    #6208
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    I’m not unsympathetic either. And heck, if the Kickstarter is extraordinarily successful, then we will add to those goals.

    #6209
    Profile photo of Jim Groves
    Jim Groves
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on November 14, 2013, 18:17
    I’m not unsympathetic either. And heck, if the Kickstarter is extraordinarily successful, then we will add to those goals.

    Well, it’s like Heroquesting then, eh? Or Laverne and Shirley?

    “We never heard the the word, impossible.”

    But Impossible requires some resources, so put your cards on the table and show us what you got! 🙂

    #6211
    Profile photo of Stuart
    Stuart
    Spectator

    Looks like some good stuff coming.
    Only suggestion I can come up with is maybe change the name to Gods of Genertela, leaving the future open for a Gods of Pamaltela?

    #6212
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    My thots

    I’m not seeing the split between the thematic Darkness Age and the Chaos Age. The lawful deities can be shifted to the Gray Age (survival) or the Storm Age (Violence!). I would rework it like:

    GREEN AGE: Korgatsu, Mostal, Aldrya, Kyger Litor, Invisible God, Primal Chaos.

    My Comment: The Invisible God (rather than Malkion) represents the Malkioni debates over the nature of the Supreme Being: Makan, Irensaval, Idovanus. Kyger is here along with the other Elder Races as her peak time is the bliss of Wonderhome.

    GOLDEN AGE: Yelm, Ernalda, Zzabur, Eiritha

    My Comment: I shifted many of the Earth Goddesses here as their fertility represents the fruits of the Golden Age rather than the mysteries of the Green Age. Zzabur is here to represent Traditional Sorcery.

    STORM AGE: Humakt, Orlanth, Storm Bull, Lodril, Zorak Zoran

    My Comment: Ty Kora Tek gets shifted here from the Green Age as she comes into her own as a response to Death. Lodril is here for the same reason that Orlanth is here – both are rowdy men’s gods.

    CHAOS AGE: Unholy Trio (Duo really).

    LIGHTBRINGER INTERLUDE: Issaries, Chalana Arroy, Lhankor Mhy, Eurmal

    GRAY AGE: Yelmalio, Horned Man, Waha, Daka Fal, Buserian, Argan Argar

    My Comment: Yelmalio, Buserian and Argan Argar belong here as their magic is most needed here.

    DAWN AGE: Harmast, Hrestol, Arkat and Nysalor.

    IMPERIAL AGE: God Learners, EWF, Alakoring

    MODERN AGE: Godunya, Red Goddess, HonEel, Seven Mothers

    My Comment: Hwarin Dalthippa in addition to HonEel seems a bit of an overkill.

    Outside Tracks/Possible Stretches

    DORADDI: Golden Age: Artmal Storm Age: Vangono Chaos Age: Vovisibor Gray Age: Pamalt
    EASTERN ISLES: Green Age: Vith Golden Age: Valzain. Storm Age: Kabalt. Chaos Age: Avanpdur Gray Age: Mashunasan.
    FONRIT: Golden Age: Ompalam. Storm Age: Seseine. Chaos Age: Gark.
    KRALORELA: Green Age: Daruda. Golden Age: Mikaday. Storm Age: Vayobi. Chaos Age: Sekever. Gray Age: Vashanti.
    MERFOLK: Green Age: Daliath Golden Age: Triolina Storm Age: Storm God Ancestors
    Chaos Age: Kajabor/Jotimam Gray Age: Masgasta.

    #6213
    Profile photo of Roko Joko
    Roko Joko
    Spectator

    I’d like to see answers to metaphysical questions that bear on magical practice, like:

    • what is animist heroquesting?
    • what is sorcerous heroquesting?
    • what does sacrifice have to do with being?
    • what does veneration have to do with knowing?
    • what what does adoration have to do with having?
    • is there [still] such a thing as great spirits? what is the difference between a god and a great spirit? what is the difference between worshipping the two?
    • is there [still] such a thing as “magic originating in the everything world”? What does that mean?
    • how ubiquitous are spirits? are daimones and essences [still] in the setting, and how ubiquitous are they? in religions based on one otherworld, how do the adherents interact with entities from the other ones?

    I also think there’s a need for Gloranthan HeroQuest 2 magic rules to be comphrensively designed and fleshed out in a single place. The HQ2 book isn’t deep enough, and the Sartar and Pavis books are too narrowly focused.

    I think a lot of things, like runic affinities and pretty much the whole idea of heroquesting, have been theist-centric, and I think that’s been detrimental. It’s allowed the designers to avoid working out a metaphysics that works, and it’s allowed lameness in things like great spirits and spirit cults that are basically just gods and theist cults with a coat of paint, or descriptions of the spirit world as a featureless plain (that sounds awesome, I can’t wait for my next vision quest), or of the sorcery world as spell nodes (a room with a book sounds even more awesome.)

    #6214
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    Thinking a bit more:

    The GREEN AGE deities should represent the philosophical or dreamtime nature. I know the Ernaldans think of themselves as being Green Age but they are not thematically green age. They have the look and feel of the early golden age before everything turned to tyranny. Many or Most of these deities will not have meaningful cults but describe the Worldviews of the Cultures.

    YELM INTERLUDE

    GOLDEN AGE deities should reflect the classic and ideal nature of the culture. The Good Old Days so to speak. Deities in this age are usually something like fertility deities or wise lawgivers.

    DEATH INTERLUDE: Humakt

    STORM AGE deities represent the culture’s response to Death and use of Violence. Orlanth belongs here the age in which he acts is the same age as Ernalda who thematically belongs to the previous age.

    UNHOLY TRIO INTERLUDE: The introduction of Chaos.

    CHAOS AGE deities are representative of the age when the world was turned upside down. The Gods here are either horrors that frighten their own side or desperate survival deities.

    LIGHTBRINGER INTERLUDE: The Lightbringers.

    GRAY AGE deities gather the survivors and teach them new ways to live.

    There’s eight cults already down (Yelm, Humakt, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Eurmal, Lhankor Mhy, Malia and Thed). Another four are stipulated for history (Arkat, Harmast, EWF, God Learners)

    Now for the Cultures Choices. Each culture will have five deities (that’s in addition to the Interludes). Some of the deities are going to be just plain unplayable so we can limit them to a shorter writeup.

    MALKIONI:

    [*]Green Age: Makan/Irensaval/etc.
    [*]Golden Age: Zzabur.
    [*]Storm Age: Hrestol.
    [*]Chaos Age: Heresies
    [*]Gray Age: The Abiding Book

    HSUNCHEN:
    [*]Green Age: Korgatsu
    [*]Golden Age: Pralor
    [*]Storm Age: Rathor
    [*]Chaos Age: Telmor
    [*]Gray Age: Basmol

    ORLANTHI:
    [*]Green Age: Asrelia
    [*]Golden Age: Ernalda
    [*]Storm Age: Orlanth
    [*]Chaos Age: Maran Gor
    [*]Gray Age: Heort.

    DARA HAPPA:
    [*]Green Age: Dayzatar.
    [*]Golden Age: Lodril
    [*]Storm Age: Polaris
    [*]Chaos Age: Shargash
    [*]Gray Age: Buserian.

    PRAX:
    [*]Green Age: Genert.
    [*]Golden Age: Eiritha.
    [*]Storm Age: Storm Bull.
    [*]Chaos Age: Daka Fal.
    [*]Gray Age: Waha.

    UZ:
    [*]Green Age: Subere.
    [*]Golden Age: Kyger Litor.
    [*]Storm Age: Karrg.
    [*]Chaos Age: Zorak Zoran
    [*]Gray Age: Argan Argar

    MOSTALI:
    Doesn’t really lend itself to this analysis

    ALDRYAMI:
    A bit of a tautology to describe it using this analysis.

    LUNAR:
    [*}Green Age: Annilla.
    [*]Golden Age: Seven Mothers
    [*]Storm Age: HonEel
    [*]Chaos Age: Gbaji
    [*]Gray Age: Red Goddess

    That’s 32 deities total. Plus 8 for the Interlude Deities and Four for the historical deities/heroes (EWF, God Learners, Harmast, Arkat), yields a total of 44 cults plus 5 unplayables. Undoubtely the Hsunchen can go or be relegated to stretch goals, giving us the same number of deities as Jeff’s original scheme.

    Lastly I think that Kargzant deserves an examination, explaining his cult in the thematic form and also observing that this analysis was carried about by God Learners in Prax watching the Pure Horse Tribe.

    #6215
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    Peter – thanks but not every culture will have the same number of cults detailed, nor will every Age have the same number of cults. This book will be exploring Gloranthan mythology and heroquesting, and provide detailed information about many significant cults. Some mythic events and figures WILL be overrepresented, but the whole should provide insight into the interconnectivity of Gloranthan mythology and the overall thematic structure of the same.

    #6216
    Profile photo of Emmanuel Ponette
    Emmanuel Ponette
    Spectator

    Peter,

    this is totally (and probably on purpose) a western and central Genertela centric view of the mythology (and the gods)…

    #6217
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    Emmanuel – this is a Jeff and Greg-centric view of the mythology and the gods.

    #6218
    Profile photo of Martin Helsdon
    Martin Helsdon
    Spectator

    Will there be an equivalent of the old Prosopaedia giving a wider outline of Gloranthan deities?

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