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This topic contains 25 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of boztakang boztakang 3 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #5401
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator

    Along the same lines as the question about Elfs, has any official Heroquest publication of Troll religion been published?

    Thanks

    Michael

    #7619
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    There was an Unspoken Word version for HQ1.

    #7623
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator

    Thanks. I suspect, though, that the chances of getting hold of a copy after this time might be slim. I’ll have to hope.
    Michael

    #7624
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    I fear the UW1 approach to troll religion is not the approach we will be taking. Dan McCluskey might be around to give some basic points though. You around Dan?

    #7628
    Profile photo of boztakang
    boztakang
    Participant

    I can assure you there has been quite a bit of work done on the Uz and their religion and culture 🙂
    As a bit of a teaser, here are the Uz answers to the basic religious questions of glorantha…

    Where did the world come from?

    From the Darkness.
    Everything begins in darkness, and at first, there was only darkness. Eventually some of the darkness became Water, and water became Earth, and outside the Earth were violent Air and the wicked Sky.
    For a time, everything was good, and that was Wonderhome, where everyone had enough to eat, and pain had not been invented yet.
    But the outside powers were not content with perfection, and conspired to ruin everything. Evil gods came into the darkness, and stole a bit of it away. A thing called death, which used to divide inside from out. The outside gods did not understand this thing, and they broke it, so that it cut sideways, and tore body from soul, instead of simply keeping things where they belonged.
    With this new power, the Emperor of Outside and his Legion of Blinding Light invaded our underworld, and drove us from Wonderhome into the Hurtplace, where we live now. Everything bad that has happened since, is because of his evil.
    Because the world was broken, it fell apart.
    Bits of pre-dark, the horrible nothing before anything, began to creep into existence. This pre-dark, or “chaos,” destroys whatever it touches, and what it does not destroy, it warps and corrupts, and makes bad. We fought it bravely, but were unable to stop it spreading. As it spread, it destroyed the good food, causing the Great Hunger.
    At the end, when the world was suffering its final death-throes, our great mother, Kyger Litor, hatched a plan to save it from nothingness. She told Spider to weave a web, and gave a strand of her web to each of the great gods, even the evil ones, and in this web, she caught all the remaining bits of world that had not been destroyed yet.
    Now the gods, and the world, are all caught in her web, and the pre-dark too, and so long as they all keep hold of their strands, the world will remain as it is.
    That web is called Time, and it holds the world together, so that chaos cannot consume us all.

    Where do we come from?

    We come from our Mother, Kyger Litor. She is the source of all Uz, and all that is good and right in the world. You can see her in your own Mother, who gave you life, and when you worship her, you worship Her.
    Though we all descend ultimately from Kyger Litor, there are many generations of ancestors between she, and us. Your ancestors are all worthy of worship and adoration, because without them, you could not be.

    Why do we die?

    We die because the evil outside gods broke the world. Gods of Light and Fire, and Storm and Death. We die because we are careless and weak, and are not careful with our mother’s gifts. We die when we fail to bring a new generation of healthy Uz into the world to praise and worship and strengthen Kyger Litor.

    What happens after we die?

    When you die, your spirit part can no longer control your meat part. Some of us stay in the world as ancestor spirits to complete a task, or to help, teach and protect our family and clan. Others return to the underworld, where they wander the blasted grey wastelands that were once wonderhome, eating dust, and drinking from shallow pools of tasteless water. Eventually, they are called back into the world to live again in new flesh.

    Why am I here?

    You are here to serve your mother. She is closer to the goddess than you are, and knows better what you should do. When we obey our mothers and our goddess, then the world becomes a better place – closer to the ancient joy of wonderhome. When we fail in those responsibilities, we are cursed and made weak and hungry and full of pain and sorrow.

    How do I do magic?

    If you are lucky, your mother will teach you to worship our gods and great ancestors. When you worship well, you become like them, strong and powerful. Through sacrifice and ceremony and dance and drumming – with offerings of food and song and defeated foes we please the gods and ancestors and partake of their glory.
    You also know the names of your ancestors, and the various dehori who live with your family, clan and tribe. These spirits can help you in many ways, if you treat them with respect. Do not offend them! If you have the skill and vision, you may learn to gain the aid of many other spirits as well. But always keep Kyger Litor first in your heart.

    What are the Gods?

    Gods are powerful beings who lived before the web of Time. Some are great and powerful, and some are small and weak, but still greater than you and I. The Uzuz are gods who live among us in the mortal world. The great Ancestors are gods who live in the underworld and myth-time. The greatest gods all hold strands of the Web, and are constrained by their nature, and by their promise, to only continue doing what they have always done.

    What are Spirits?

    When the world was broken, everything was split into a spirit part, and a mortal part. Some things are mostly spirit, and some are mostly mortal. Because Uz are both spirit and mortal, we can sense spirit things, and sometimes, communicate with them. Spirits have their own desires and demands, which we call “taboo.” If you honor a spirit’s taboos it will often be friendly or offer you magical aid.

    What is Sorcery?

    Sorcery is the soulless magic of the Dwarfs, and certain humans from the far west. It does not honor the gods, or respect spirits, and is as dangerous to those who use it as it is to their enemies. Fear sorcerers – for they are terrible and wicked, consumed by their evil magic.
    Fortunately for us, Arkat Kingtroll stole the secrets of Sorcery from the humans, and now some among us can use that power against our foes. But it is still an evil power, even when used for good.

    #7632
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator

    Thanks, very interesting. So, if I’m understanding it right, Uz worship dieties and spirits. That’s not unknown, with Kolatings in Orlanthi society. So are Kyger Litor, Zorak Zoran and Argan Argar spirits or dieties?

    Michael

    #7636
    Profile photo of David Scott
    David Scott
    Keymaster

    Deities or spirits? It’s a matter of perception. If you are a Divine worshipper you will perceive them as gods. If you are a spirit worshipper you will perceive them as great spirits. If you are able to do both then they are either or both. There’s no perfect answer here.

    #7638
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator

    Was thinking about misapplied worship. Or has that disappeared? (I don’t have HQ2)

    #7640
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    Misapplied worship does not exist in HQ2

    #7641
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator

    I need to get HQ2. Although that still leaves the question of on which plane the troll gods/spirits live.

    #7642
    Profile photo of Peter Metcalfe
    Peter Metcalfe
    Spectator

    HQ2 rules aren’t that detailed especially in the terms of gloranthan metaphysics. The guide has far more information. And the Troll Deities reside in the Underworld.

    #7646
    Profile photo of boztakang
    boztakang
    Participant

    Uz don’t really make a distinction between “god” and “great spirit” the way that humans would. As Peter said, they experience their deities in the Underworld, where spirits are pretty much just regular folk like anyone else… In the Hurtplace, some spirits are embodied, and some are not, but that distinction isn’t nearly as important as the all-important division between “uz” and “food” (which applies to spirits just like it does to physical things)

    Rules wise, Uz cults are typically treated as divine, but certain gods have their own Spirit Traditions for dealing with unusual spirits that interest them. “Sprit Magic” is for negotiating with or dominating external magical entities, and “divine magic” is for emulation and worship of the ancestors (or anything important enough to be magically adopted as an “ancestor”) All proper Uz are raised in the Kyger Litor Spirit Tradition, which allows them to interact with the bodiless members of their clan and society.

    #7649
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator

    I think I was stuck in the HQ1 divine/spirit/essence planes split

    #7650
    Profile photo of Simon Bray
    Simon Bray
    Spectator

    Ironically this is exactly how Uz Trolls of Glorantha was written at the first, but then we were forced to rationalise it against the rules set. At the time of its creation it was the officially sanctioned version of Trollish faith. A lot of strange restrictions were imposed on the book, such as length and depth of development, and it’s bloody awful cover always made me want to throw it at the wall! (The printers used the wrong art). The Unspoken Word crew ran a weekly troll game exploring Uz myth for about two years on and off. We never defined the differences between spirits and gods, or even Arkati Sorcerous entities during those explorations, they were all just friends or foes in the darkness. In the long run we all became termites, but that is another story.

    #7651
    Profile photo of Simon Bray
    Simon Bray
    Spectator

    If I have luggage space I will put a few copies of the Unspoken Word stuff in my bag for Eternalcon.

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