Home Forums Glorantha Glorantha Discussions The House of Sartar, Feathered Horse Queens, and Werewolves

This topic contains 28 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Charles Charles 3 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #6424
    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on December 14, 2013, 05:49
    3. Sartar made that peace by giving the Telmori a new chief,Ostling Four-Wolf, a companion of Sartar’s who had four wolf brothers, knew secrets of their changing, and offered them hope of breaking their curse. No Telmori had ever seen him before but there was no doubt he was a Telmori chief. Ostling passed the leadership tests of the Telmori and ruled them for a LONG time. Ostling was quite an old man when he had his romance with Onelisin.

    Ostling Four-Wolves must have been an extraordinary character. Assuming he was about 20 in 1480 when Sartar presented him as the new chief of the Telmori tribe, and Onelisin (born around 1516) having been married for at least a year (giving birth to her triplets before), their meeting must have happened when Ostling was well in his seventies.

    “There was no doubt that he was a Telmori chief.”

    Ostling apparently knew what to do to prove himself before the Telmori leaders and magicians. His four wolves must have passed the test for being true wolves, too. However, we know that Sartar was a powerful magician able to change other people’s (and spirits’) shape and nature.

    Almost makes me wonder if Sartar took one wolf out of a litter of 5 and made him a man.

    Afterthought: possibly one of the Sairdite Telmori who had been absolved from the Curse by HonEel when she turned all of them into full time wolves.

    It would be an interesting campaign to follow Sartar and his endeavours. I think we could learn a lot about creative and explorative heroquesting from that.

    #6433
    Profile photo of Evilroddy
    Evilroddy
    Spectator

    David, I dusted off all my Gloranthan materials this weekend and was ready to make a case for the chaos connection of the Telmori, but your citations make it pretty clear that Dorastor Land of Doom was an anomalous interpretation. I will point out that on p. 25 of the book it does explicitly say that the Cursed-ones are chaotic and thus offend the senses of Storm-bullers and Uroxi. This is not the case with Pure-ones who on p. 24 are said to be without chaos taint. But given the body of evidence which you have presented, I am now persuaded that the case is well made that DLoD was wrong and that the Telmori are not chaotic. Thanks for the clarification and the references. Cheers!
    Rod Robertson.

    #6440
    Profile photo of Douglas Crawford
    Douglas Crawford
    Spectator

    Um… but as I understood Jeff, he just said that Telmori are chaotic (and detect as such to Uroxi) when they turn into wolves on the full moon. BTW, does anyone else remember A Tale of a Rat from the old RQ Companion?

    #6441

    To be my usual nitpicky self, the curse registers as chaotic on wilddays. Full Moon is coincidental in Maniria and Pamaltela, but other regions will have different weekdays for the Lunar phases.

    As for the werewolf character in Smell of a Rat, try convincing a Storm Bull berserk that you’re a non-chaotic person, and only the curse manifesting on wildday gives off that chaotic aura. The berserk will be about as approachable as a cursed Telmori on wildday, I wager.

    #6443
    Profile photo of Evilroddy
    Evilroddy
    Spectator

    So, I thought David nailed it down above but, the statement by Jeff has caused me some confusion. The Telmori Cursed-ones have a chaos taint when in involuntary wolf-form if they are normally human and in human-form if they are normally wolf. However, in their unaltered form they have no chaos taint. I assume that there is no chaos taint when they voluntarily go into wolf-form by using divine magic as this is normal Hsunchen magic which is quite “clean”? So they can be detected by Uroxi and Storm-bullers on Wildday’s eve and night but at no other time. Thus, assuming that at least one Uroxi has encountered one Telemori in altered form and survived to tell the story, then how do the House of Sartar and the Kheldon Queen justify their close ties to these people who are at times chaotic?
    A befuddled Rod Robertson.

    #6446
    Profile photo of David Scott
    David Scott
    Keymaster
    Quote:
    Quote from Douglas Crawford on December 16, 2013, 19:15
    Um… but as I understood Jeff, he just said that Telmori are chaotic (and detect as such to Uroxi) when they turn into wolves on the full moon.

    Jeff said

    Quote:
    Storm Bull cultists claim they are tainted by Chaos

    Your Glorantha May Vary

    #6450
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    The House of Sartar justifies it two ways: 1. the Telmori were cursed by Chaos but they now loyally serve us. They don’t kill us, they don’t steal our livestock; instead they kill our enemies. They don’t worship evil gods, just their big wolf god. They might be evil, but they are *our* evil, no different than the cave trolls who serve the dark trolls.
    2. Sartar is a god, beloved of Orlanth and Ernalda, who ascended to Orlanth’s Hall with the Liberating Bolt. Hauberk Jon was the chief priest of Orlanth and he approved Sartar’s Peace. And now the Telmori fight against the Red Moon for us. So the gods are just fine with this.
    Sure, the Uroxi claim that the Telmori are chaotic when they are invulnerable wolves on Wildsday, but we just make sure that they are on opposite sides of the battlefield. And besides everyone knows those Uroxi are nuts.

    #6453
    Profile photo of Charles
    Charles
    Keymaster

    The Uroxi are a necessary evil. They are a complete pain all of the time, dirty, smelly, take all of our beer, take all of our food, break everything by accident when drunk and deliberately when sober just to show that they can. The only time they are tolerable is when they can be sent away to fight chaos.

    About the only people that might disagree with this are Chalana Arroy nurses, who can also be a complete pain but in almost exactly the opposite way…

    YGMV 😀

    #6589
    Profile photo of David Scott
    David Scott
    Keymaster

    Gregory M has done a nice interpretation of the tree on his blog: http://heort.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/la-dynastie-de-sartar-les-telmori-et-les-reines-cheval-a-plumes/. It’s in French, but we’re international enough to deal with that. Here’s the tree link: http://heort.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/gc3a9nc3a9alogie4.pdf

    #6593
    Profile photo of Simon Phipp
    Simon Phipp
    Spectator

    It would be good to see Argrath on there as well.

    What is the relationship between the 2nd and 3rd Feathered Horse Queens? They seem unrelated, but I am sure that isn’t the case.

    #6609
    Profile photo of Erick Eckberg
    Erick Eckberg
    Spectator

    Not for nuthin, but…. this is a great thread. I love gleaming some inside info like this from you guys! The whole Feathered Horse Queen – Telmori – House of Sartar thing always was a mystery to me, one I just accepted and tried to ignore (even with my players asking things like, “Why the hell are a bunch of Telmori werewolves tolerated in the palace in Boldhome?”) The old Glorantha sources were full of enticing little tidbits like this. I like that so much of it is so logically explained in the new products. Bravo guys!

    #6782
    Profile photo of Charles
    Charles
    Keymaster

    I just noticed from the preview guide that the later kings of Tarsh (Moirades, and Pharandros) are (almost certainly) descendants of Sartar, via the Feathered Horse Queens.

    To make it even better, Moirades fathered a son with Jar-Eel…

    #6788
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    The successor to the Feathered Horse Queen is chosen among her daughters. However, it is known that not all daughters of the Feathered Horse Queen are her biological biological children. And given the ceremonial and religious nature of the FHQ, her previous identity is not spoken of – making it very hard to work out accurate genealogical charts for the later queens.

    #6789
    Profile photo of Charles
    Charles
    Keymaster

    and the story opportunities are just too good to miss…

    … and doesn’t Jar-Eel’s son eventually become the monster emperor or the like?

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