June 3, 2014 at 7:12 am #8090
PentallionSpectatorQuote:Quote from Peter Metcalfe on June 3, 2014, 06:11
As for the other gods, I would expect to see: Lodril, Idovanus/Invisible God, Humakt, Ganesataurus, Zorak Zoran, High King Elf, Gorgorma, Storm Bull. Pamalt is too far away
No one ever expects to SEE the Invisible God 😉June 3, 2014 at 8:03 am #8091
Peter MetcalfeSpectatorQuote:In my lexicon these are traveling words indicating going from one place to another.
In your quote which I was responding to, you made mention of “foreign lands”. Hence I asked where the mention of foreign lands was coming from. Now that you have explained that in effect you were merely extrapolating from mentions of travel, your position is much clearer.
That said, please could you refrain from flippancy? It isn’t helping your arguments any, among other things.Quote:As for the armies, either the texts are clear on their mortality or again
My issue is that you are using the text and implied definitions of one source to interpret a completely different source (Fortunate Succession to interpret Orlanth and the Red Goddess and vice versa). It is true that mortals as well as gods died in the battle. It does not so follow from that that Orlanth’s army in the Contest of Weapons was largely a mortal army. The myth of Orlanth and the Red Goddess is about Orlanth’s actions at Castle Blue – the actions of others gets short shrift – so it could have been the immortal army of the Storm Tribe that fought in the Contest of Weapons.Quote:you have spent how much time today trying to browbeat me that Orlanth is not a “foreigner” here?
For the record, you stated that Orlanth was acting as a foreigner. I pointed out that wasn’t what the text said. I have no idea what it means for Orlanth to act as a foreigner nor do I see any evidence for Orlanth to be foreign to Castle Blue. On the other hand, the only Orlanthi who is explicitly stated to be there is Alakoring.
If you have some compelling insight to share with us about Orlanth’s foreignness shedding light on castle blue, then now would be the ideal time to spell that out.Quote:Besides, if Yelm is voicing strong opinions during the abrogation of the Compromise, I would expect the first thing He would do is to correct an emperor enthroned in His name and thwarting His will.
What do you think would be shown in the historical records if, say, Yelm did voice strong opinions, was defeated and then made to recant those strong opinions?Quote:Emperor and Prophet Yelmgatha sent his son to fight on the goddess’s side. If this would have run counter to the god’s interests, would Yelmgatha have reigned quite so long? Or was losing an heir chastisement enough?
He didn’t send his son. His son died fighting for the Goddess, without any indication that was what Yelmgatha wanted. As for acting against the God’s interests, the chief point of departure between the Goddess and Yelm would have been the Battle of Castle Blue. Yelmgatha ruled only five years after that, three of those years with the Red Emperor at his side. I don’t quite see that as a long reign.June 3, 2014 at 4:41 pm #8093
Using Gloranthan texts to determine objective and definitive descriptions of events is like using the Iliad to accurately describe the destruction of Troy VIIa, or the Ramesseum to understand the Battle of Kadesh. There are bits and pieces of accurate information, but trying to piece them together is doomed to failure — but will provide a livelihood for countless generations of scholars. 😎June 25, 2014 at 5:01 pm #8104
I am a little perplexed by what is meant by “Orlanth is a foreigner here”. Orlanth, by one name or another, is certainly known to the residents of Castle Blue.June 26, 2014 at 7:16 am #8135
When the Americans entered World War 1, they were known to the British and had connections and ties to the country. So I would suggest that the situation is the same as whether you consider the US a foreigner entering the European war?June 26, 2014 at 10:56 am #8153
OK, a little terminology. Orlanth is a foreign god in much of Carmania in that he is not a tribal god of the peoples outside of Worion and parts of the Doblian satrapy. However, he is the tribal god of Brolia, Charg, and Talastar, and was one of the many war gods of the Carmanian Empire (along with Humakt). When the Carmanian Empire was defeated in the Zero Wane, first they lost Karasal, Naveria, Doblia, and Arir. Shardash on the Poralistor was destroyed in 1241, leaving a rump of the Carmanian Empire along the Oronin River, Spol, Zhor, Bindle, Worion, and likely making the Friends of the Shah (the tribes of Brolia, Vanstal, Baloris, and Anadikki) increasingly important.
Orlanth was the tribal god of many (perhaps most) of these tribal allies, and these allies did lend their magic to fight the Red Goddess at Castle Blue. The Warlord of Charg said it was his duty to fight Chaos and invoked the Bull of Storms. The Brolians, who revere Alakoring Dragonbreaker, called upon the Great King. And so on. In this regard, Orlanth was definitely not an outsider to the fight – he was called upon by many of those who opposed the Red Goddess at Castle Blue.
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