January 13, 2014 at 2:27 pm #5317
Having seen some of the RQ stuff that has come up here and over at the design mechanism forums, I’ve started thinking about how mixed religions work under RQ6. By mixed I mean those that aren’t just theism, spirit magic and sorcery, but a mixture of 2 or more. The current example that I’m working with is the Praxians, Greg was adamant that their religion was a mixture of both Theism and spirit magic (another example would be the trolls). RQ6 as it stands has no Glorantha in it and very separated magic systems. If I look back at rq3, there were certainly mixed ones. What are people doing to address the more mixed magic nature of Glorantha than represented by RQ6 in their games?January 13, 2014 at 4:09 pm #6724
Technically this was left open in rq encounter tool. Waha and stormbull for example would have both theist and spirits. have not modeled that yet in any of my enemies. looking at malkioni and they would likely have both sorcery and theist spells. From the player point of view it will be slow to advance in both at the same time so probably in the start very little play balance issues. Should there be some limits – perhaps. There are now some spirit societies for prax designed at thedesignmechanism forum and then implemented in rq encounter tool. Similar approach might work for combined magic. i would rule it so that you have only limited amount of spell varieties you could have for (such) a cult – your cult would not teach you others and perhaps you cannot serve two cults…January 13, 2014 at 10:10 pm #6726
Count me very interested in this topic, as I am (slowly) planning a short aldryami campaign, and I’m sure aldryami also practice a mix of theism and animism.
The idea that I liked from the The Design Mechanism forums for RQ6 is that aldryami (and praxians, uz, telmori, etc.) practice animism but also have access to divine spells in the form of cult spirits that embody/cast those spells for the initiate. These powerful spirits are only accessible to high-rank members of the shamanic cult, but shamans can summon them at put them at the temporary service of low-rank cult members in exchange for favors or as a reward. Shamans might even have to undergo a small hero/shamanic quest to ask the deity for these special spirits.
Question: Seeing how many gods exist in Glorantha, is there really any animist culture that relies exclusively on spirits? Because hsunchen also have gods, haven’t they? I mean, even if they call them “great spirits”. Even Daka Fal is a god.
I am very much looking forward to the release of “Adventures in Glorantha“. It must be a hard book to write, but RQ fans will thank Pete Nash for it!January 14, 2014 at 12:54 am #6727
There’s absolutely no reason why a cult cannot have mixed belief/magic systems. The examples in the RQ6 rules are single-strand purely for expediency, but I think its very easy to have Theist/Animists (Shinto is a good example of this), Sorceror/Animists, Sorcerer/Theists (our bad guy in Book of Quests is one of these) or any other ‘/’ combination you want to entertain.
One question that might arise is, having access to multiple magic systems in the same cult is unfair or creates a situation whereby everyone will only ever want to be in THAT cult. But really, its more an issue of perception than practice. All the higher magic systems depend on you advancing in at least two skills to get better in that discipline, so players will need to work out and decide what to spend their rolls on. Secondly, the spread of spells/miracles/talents/spirits is generally dependent on cult rank, which again relies on skill progression…
So its self regulating.
I also don’t think you necessarily need to come up with convoluted rules or excuses for why some cults have both animism and theism as their core. Its perfectly possible and acceptable for some cults to worship gods and receive miracles, but also propitiate the spirits and gain their powers too, depending on the circumstances. The magic system and Magic Point/Devotional Pool mechanics are flexible enough to handle whatever whacky combination you want. Where Glorantha is concerned its really just a question of reflecting your interpretation of the cult and its magic in the way that fits your Glorantha.
Because YGWV and YRQWV.January 14, 2014 at 12:01 pm #6728
Re reading the rules, it does actually state:Quote:…traditions may teach more than one type of magic. A cult might combine Folk Magic with Theism for instance, granting a broader range of abilities.
However there is step before that:Quote:RuneQuest provides rules for five basic and distinct magical types, which for ease of reference are called disciplines. Others exist
and will no doubt be explored in future supplements.
andQuote:a RuneQuest campaign does not have to include all five. Games Masters should consider whether each discipline is suitable for his game setting.
It’s clear to me the parallels between RQ6 and Heroquest are:
Folk Magic = Common Magic, Animism = Spirit Magic, Sorcery = Wizardry, Theism = Theism.
Mysticism I’m going to drop as discipline in Glorantha. In HeroQuest it’s a narrated thing without a rules set and quite restrictive.
Lunar Magic would appear to be a missing discipline.January 14, 2014 at 6:23 pm #6729
As a Glorantha fan, I absolutely think that there are many Gloranthan religions that combine multiple types of magic, and that should be doable in RQ. I’ve looked at converting a few such cults (Urox/Storm Bull, for example) in to RQ, and it generally isn’t hard. A good way to do it is to assume that one skill can be used as another, so a cult that uses two kinds of magic requires three skills not four. I figure that in Adventures in Glorantha for RQ this will be tied in with Runes (say, a troll priestess might be able to use her Darkness Rune both as Devotion to Kygor Litor and Trance), but it will vary by cult – there is no set way for this to work for HeroQuest either (eg both Odayla and Urox mix animism and theism in HQ2, but in very different ways). We’ll need specific rules for the different cases, but most of the time that basic rule – in some cases a skill does double duty – will work fine.
I also think the RuneQuest 6 rules are really well designed and flexible, and can do more than most people think – in particular, I think the Mysticism rules in RQ6 can be adapted to work for both the abilities of both Illuminants and Eastern Mystics fairly well (though Illuminants generally won’t have any access physical powers like the ones depicted in the RQ6 rules, but ones like Immunity To Spirits of Reprisal and Denial of Chaos Taint). I did a crack at writing up Lunar Magic using a combination of all five disciplines, and it worked pretty well! (sevening gets you access to mysticism). This isn’t to say that the rules can describe mysticism itself, obviously, just some of the abilities mystics seem to manifest (the metaphysics of whether this is, in fact, mysticism magic or just mysticism interacting with other magic not being a question the game needs to answer).
But, FWIW – in RQ3 a lot of religions were depicted as mixed animist/theist in that they had shamans who got access to theist magic, and in RQ6 the much much richer magic available to animists through different spirits often means that you can model the many mixed animist/theist cults using animism alone. Cults like Waha or Bagog or Pamalt can work just fine with Folk Magic and Animism, no theism needed, and still do everything they could in RQ3. That said, there are a few effects here and there where a spirit that is able to cast a divine magic spell (or something very similar) seems the most appropriate way to do it (eg the Rage of the Bull Spirit from S:KoH).
And Hannu – I don’t think orthodox Malkioni use any theism (though Henotheists might, obviously).January 14, 2014 at 6:38 pm #6730
henotheist would be the likely ones…
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