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  • #13666
    Profile photo of Nel
    Nel
    Spectator

    This is just a brief idea for playing in Glorantha using the Fate Core rules.

    Aspects
    (as per book)

    Skills
    (as per book)

    Stress and Consequnces
    (as per book)

    Stunts and Refresh
    (as per book)

    Milestones
    (as per book)

    Magic:
    People in Glorantha can believe in one or several gods, each one granting one or more Runes, which will be noted as Skills in the Pyramid.
    Magical Stunts can represent a magical item or a myth the believer knows and performs.

    In order to summarize the different magical systems, we categorize believers in 3 levels:
    Worshipper, Initiate and Devote.

    Worshippers:
    Requirement: None.
    Runes: These Skills can only used for the Action “Create Advantage”.

    Initiate:
    Requirements: Having formerly been a worshipper of that god, and an Aspect.
    Runes: All Actions are available, and 1 Stunt per Rune.

    Devote:
    Requirements: Having formerly been an initiate of that god, and an Aspect.
    Runes: All Actions are available, and as many Stunts per Rune as desired.

    #13928

    Hi Scott,

    A very interesting post I am discovering lately. I am found of FATE and games like Free Universal (FU) and PDQ.

    I am thinking about converting HeroQuest/Glorantha to one or the other since several months now and defining how the basic concepts should be translated has been the easier part of the process. You are perfectly summing up the various possibilities with FATE, far better than I could have.

    To go further one needs to understand how HeroQuest 2 is working. This is why I have at last read the Heroquest 2 rules from cover to cover with an open mind… this time. And I like what I have read (to the exception of the Pass/Fail Cycle though it is an interesting read) to the point I am ready to give HeroQuest 2 a chance. Especially with the current Moon Design line of products and the prospect of a “revised” HeroQuest 2 made for Glorantha to be published soon.

    The various editions of Gloranthan material can be very helpful. Now that you have decided how you will use Stunts, I think that you need a list of Stunts, if not just to figure out the kind of spells/charms/powers the players can pick or design.

    In RQ2 (Chaosium), for example, you can find lists of spirit magic and divine magic spells that can easily be translated as Stunts, the name and a rough knowledge of what the spell can do is usually all you need.

    If I remember well, you can find other helpful lists in Hero Wars and/or HeroQuest 1 products. Someone having a better knowledge of the previous game systems than me could help you target the most useful books.

    In my opinion, the exhausting part of the conversion process is the “fine tuning” of the whole thing. The various kind of Magics do not work the same way and this is exactly what is difficult to translate. In my opinion again, this is the reason why there isn’t a complete conversion of HeroQuest/Glorantha to FATE or another game system like PDQ somewhere on the net yet.

    #13949
    Profile photo of Nel
    Nel
    Spectator

    Now that you have decided how you will use Stunts, I think that you need a list of Stunts, if not just to figure out the kind of spells/charms/powers the players can pick or design.
    In RQ2 (Chaosium), for example, you can find lists of spirit magic and divine magic spells that can easily be translated as Stunts, the name and a rough knowledge of what the spell can do is usually all you need.

    Yes, I remember the RQ2 spells, and they were uninspiring to me.
    Too raw
    Too D&D-ish.

    When playing in Glorantha, I don’t want the PCs to handle a sword with a boring +3, I want the PCs to use magic as we use science in our world.

    For example, a farmer who worships Ernalda will ask her to bless his crop by using the Earth Rune Skill with a “Create an advantage” action to make an Aspect on the field. And when that farmer becomes an Ernalda initiate he will use a Life Rune Stunt for an Overcome action in order to impress the neighbours who come to the feast of the clan with the largest pumkin they have seen for years.

    Or a worshiper of Orlanth who uses his Air Rune Skill to gain the Aspect “I walk on the air”: I raise up from the ground and move on the air due to a wind I command.
    And later on, when that worshiper becomes an initiate he gets an Air Rune Stunt such as this: I can be carried by a wind I command until a place I have previously seen while I was on the ground, this is an Overcome action whose difficulty increases by 1 for any additional person being carried by the wind.

    My approach to Stunts is that, rather than writing down a list of Stunts for the players to choose from, I rather explain the players an idea about what can be done with them and encourage the players to surprise me with new ways to use the Stunts.
    In the case of the Runes, if a player wants to translate what he has read in any Gloranthan material, that’s fine, but if he comes up with some imaginative stuff that fits the Rune of that God, how can I deny it? I only demand a magical explanation or a brief myth where that feat appears.

    In my opinion, the exhausting part of the conversion process is the “fine tuning” of the whole thing. The various kind of Magics do not work the same way and this is exactly what is difficult to translate. In my opinion again, this is the reason why there isn’t a complete conversion of HeroQuest/Glorantha to FATE or another game system like PDQ somewhere on the net yet.

    Yes, I agree.
    I’d like to come up with any way to give the different Gloranthan magical frameworks a different translation into the Fate Core rules.
    And actually this is the reason why I shared this brief idea in this forum, so that Gloranthan connoiseurs and Fate Core hackers could help to improve my sketch.
    Anyway, I’m waiting for the HQ2-Glorantha rules to check and compare.

    #13950

    As far as I am concerned, I would get rid off the Stunts as I consider them as an unnecessary complication. I would limit myself to Aspects and Skills.

    “Cult or magical status” can be handled through Aspects. You want to be an Initiate, sure, no problem, just pick an Aspect like [I]Initiate of Orlanth[/I] and this allows you to use Runes as any other skill whereas you are limited to creating an advantage if your Aspect is [I]Lay member of Orlanth[/I] instead. Runes can be translated into skills and used as in HeroQuest 2.

    I agree that RQ2 spells are bland, but if you really have a look at some charms in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, you will recognize things like Bladesharp or Befuddle in other guise… RuneQuest was published in 1978 and shows its age.

    #14014
    Profile photo of Nel
    Nel
    Spectator

    As far as I am concerned, I would get rid off the Stunts as I consider them as an unnecessary complication. I would limit myself to Aspects and Skills.

    Yes, this is how I like it, but I have also to satisfy somehow the crunchier players.

    “Cult or magical status” can be handled through Aspects. You want to be an Initiate, sure, no problem, just pick an Aspect like Initiate of Orlanth and this allows you to use Runes as any other skill whereas you are limited to creating an advantage if your Aspect is Lay member of Orlanth instead. Runes can be translated into skills and used as in HeroQuest 2.

    If we remove the Rune Stunts for initiates and devotees, this is the magic available to believers:

    Worshippers:
    Requirement: None.
    Runes: These Skills can only used for the Action “Create Advantage”.

    Initiate:
    Requirements: Having previously been a worshipper of that god, and an Aspect.
    Runes: All Actions are available.

    Devote:
    Requirements: Having previously been an initiate of that god, and an Aspect.
    Runes: All Actions are available.

    So Worshippers use Runes as Skills only to Create advantages, and Initiates and Devotees have all actions available.
    But, then, how can we mechanically make Devotees magically stronger than Initiates?

    A solution I dislike is to allow Initiates to use Rune Skills just for a few actions (such as Create advantage and Overcome).

    #14245

    Hi Nel, sorry for the delay of my reply.

    I prefer Initiates to have access to all the actions too.

    For the Runes, I would create a single skill called Runic affinity and then ask the players to pick three runes and rate them. The player would either lower or raise his three runes rating so that the final ratings average the Runic affinity rank.

    Example :
    Runic affinity [Great] (+4)
    Movement [Superb] (+5)
    Air [Good] (+3)
    Mastery [Great] (+4)

    As far as Devotees are concerned, I think the answer is in the HeroQuest 2 Gloranthan Chapter.

    Devotees can learn Feats, I would apply the HeroQuest 2 rules Feats pretty much as they are written. A Feat could allow for many Advantages to be invoked (the first use of each Advantage being free as in Creating an Advantage) according to the Feat’s description. Based on this same description, the Feat could also allow the “caster” to use the standard actions. The example given in HQ 2 (page 111, lower right column) is pretty good, read it again and I am pretty sure many ideas will spring at you.

    If you want to scale up the power of the Feats, just give a +2 bonus to all the “caster’s” actions that are based on the Feat (which is actually a one rank raise).

    Tell me if it doesn’t make sense to you, it could be that I am overlooking a lot of things.

    #14261
    Profile photo of Nel
    Nel
    Spectator

    For the Runes, I would create a single skill called Runic affinity and then ask the players to pick three runes and rate them. The player would either lower or raise his three runes rating so that the final ratings average the Runic affinity rank.

    Example :
    Runic affinity [Great] (+4)
    Movement [Superb] (+5)
    Air [Good] (+3)
    Mastery [Great] (+4)

    Nice and elegant, I like it.
    I was thinking about a second pyramid just for runes, but your solution keeps it simpler.

    As far as Devotees are concerned, I think the answer is in the HeroQuest 2 Gloranthan Chapter.

    Devotees can learn Feats, I would apply the HeroQuest 2 rules Feats pretty much as they are written. A Feat could allow for many Advantages to be invoked (the first use of each Advantage being free as in Creating an Advantage) according to the Feat’s description. Based on this same description, the Feat could also allow the “caster” to use the standard actions. The example given in HQ 2 (page 111, lower right column) is pretty good, read it again and I am pretty sure many ideas will spring at you.

    If you want to scale up the power of the Feats, just give a +2 bonus to all the “caster’s” actions that are based on the Feat (which is actually a one rank raise).

    Yes, devotees would be able to use all the actions (like initiates) AND ALSO, they would have Feats (that is, stunts describing myths).

    When I began pondering the Fate Core + Glorantha conversion I wanted to have just one rule for the three magical frameworks, and thus I focused on the Divine magic being it the usual one in the recurring settings (Dragon Pass and Pavis), but I was afraid that my proposal was far from describing properly Spirit magic and Wizardry.

    Your idea of the Runic Affinity skill has given me a solution for the three magical frameworks: A single skill for each one.

    – Divine magic: Runic Affinity (3 runes)
    – Spirit magic: Animist Tradition (5 charms)
    – Wizardry: Grimoire (4 spells)

    Runes, charms and spells would be sub-skills (each one based on a rune) which would have different ratings (averaging the magical skill or having a different pyramid, we’ll have to consider it).

    #14436

    I would not translate Charms and Spells as skills. Where Runes cover a wide range of effects, Charms and Spells are much more specific.

    I would instead translate Grimoires and Traditions into skills, each Grimoire or Tradition being its own Skill. Each Charm or Spell would then use the skill rating of the appropriate Tradition or Grimoire.

    This is exactly as in the HeroQuest2 rules and I think it would keep things simpler.

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