Home Forums Glorantha Glorantha Discussions Ernaldan Heroquesting

This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Scott Martin Scott Martin 3 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #7905
    Profile photo of Simon Phipp
    Simon Phipp
    Spectator

    That’s a shame, as he us a really fun god. Blowy, pretentious, full of noise and, generally, a bit useless.

    #7918
    Profile photo of Michael Hitchens
    Michael Hitchens
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on May 18, 2014, 07:45
    The personal runes for gods and concepts are nice descriptive color and are exactly the sort of thing that might be tattooed on a cult member. However, they were more symbols than players and GMs could reasonably be expected to remember and manipulate. There’s a reason that alphabets with 12 to 58 characters proved more popular (and easier to master) than more complex writing systems with hundreds of signs.

    Complex and obscure knowledge are things priesthood have often loved to separate them from the mass of worshippers.

    #7919
    Profile photo of Scott Martin
    Scott Martin
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Simon Phipp on May 18, 2014, 19:36
    That’s a shame, as he us a really fun god. Blowy, pretentious, full of noise and, generally, a bit useless.

    Looking at him from a historical POV I wonder if that’s exactly the way the Darsenite grandmothers wanted it during some period of their ascendancy. Speaking of “Ernaldan Heroquesting” and its northern relations! (*)

    We know that around ST 350 he was viewed as a big strong man bearing the lightnings and his worshippers were forceful (or just pushy) enough to get Antirius knocked to the margins of the Wall. Somewhere between then and now he becomes a joke. Maybe he’ll be more than a joke again some day. It worked for Orlanth!

    * On the other hand, I suddenly wonder if he was a god of the Bull Shahs from Charg so it may be more interesting if his trajectory was engineered by the Lunars themselves in order to prevent trouble over there.

    #7925
    Profile photo of David Summers
    David Summers
    Spectator

    All I can say is that, for me, having the death of Orlanth cause the death of Ernalda isn’t an example of Orlanth being her favorite, but bring to mind more the tradition of the dependent wife who can’t life without her husband.

    Now, if the _Lunar’s_ conflated Orlanth and Ernalda, when they did their thing, and ended killing both, then she is just an innocent bystander and that works for me.

    #7926
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    Air and Earth are linked with Orlanth and Ernalda. “Killing” Orlanth also suppressed Ernalda. A variety of possible explanations exist for why that happened:

      Orlanth is the primary husband of Ernalda and so she followed Orlanth to the Underworld (similar to Orlanth following Ernalda to the Underworld with the LBQ)
      Orlanth and Ernalda are co-equal ruling deities of the south and can’t be mythologically separated – when Orlanth was in the Underworld in the God Time, so was Ernalda.
      When Orlanth was killed, Ernalda went to the Underworld to weep (like Demeter denying the world fertility when Persephone was kidnapped).
      Killing Orlanth triggers the Great Darkness and mythologically Ernalda must be in the Underworld in the Great Darkness.

    And there are probably dozens more. The key thing is that when the Lunars magically “killed” Orlanth, Ernalda also went to the Underworld, denying the world her blessings of Life, Earth, and Harmony.
    You may have an extra-Gloranthan reason to want something different to happen – in that case YGWV. But Greg’s pretty clear that the deities shared the same fate after the Fall of Whitewall.

    #7927
    Profile photo of Simon Phipp
    Simon Phipp
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on May 20, 2014, 12:22
    You may have an extra-Gloranthan reason to want something different to happen – in that case YGWV. But Greg’s pretty clear that the deities shared the same fate after the Fall of Whitewall.

    And somewhere, some Lunar HeroQuestors said “Hey, what the hell happened there?”.

    Unexpected side-effects of HeroQuests can be fun.

    #7928
    Profile photo of Scott Martin
    Scott Martin
    Spectator
    Quote:
    Quote from David Summers on May 20, 2014, 08:14
    All I can say is that, for me, having the death of Orlanth cause the death of Ernalda isn’t an example of Orlanth being her favorite, but bring to mind more the tradition of the dependent wife who can’t life without her husband.

    But also…

    Quote:
    Quote from Jeff Richard on May 20, 2014, 12:22
    Air and Earth are linked with Orlanth and Ernalda. “Killing” Orlanth also suppressed Ernalda. A variety of possible explanations exist for why that happened

    I am not up on my Sartar Rising details but one of my favorite aspects of the core Gloranthan myths are the rare moments when someone doesn’t necessarily *have* to act in a certain way but does it anyhow, often saving the world. Magasta turns back on victory. Orlanth decides he needs help. Hrestol surrenders.

    If someone is bothered by Ernalda appearing passive or subordinate here, it seems good to cast the story from her point of view and let her initiates figure it out (or explain to the rest of us). This is Ernalda’s big moment.

    Ernalda could let him die alone. In certain parts of the world and in certain moments of time she has her pick of all the men and women, so what’s one more or less? She could go on about her business. Maybe she contemplates the prospect. A moment of beauty and regret.

    But in her part of the world, Air and Earth are married and that’s more important to her than survival. She chooses not to go on about her business. Right here, right now, they are married and she chooses to actualize that bond by “literally” choosing not to live in a world without him in it. So she follows him into the dark.

    This is of course a little hinky for those of us who only want to see a liberated Ernalda roar in numbers too big to ignore, but if it’s her call, it’s her call. She fills the moral gap. And making that call kindles old magic — more ancient than the grandmothers — and in that eventually helps to repair the world.

    The results aren’t perfect, but they’re good enough until the next time. There’s always another way, even if there’s only one way left.

    Just me, of course.

    #7930
    Profile photo of Scott Martin
    Scott Martin
    Spectator

    For colder technicians, of course setting up a situation where he’s in hell and she is not sets up a bad feedback loop in the ritual fabric and so on and so forth. Her folks don’t have any stories without him somewhere on the map. Even in the ones about winter, she is the one who goes first and he comes down for her.

    I suspect “Ernalda is dead” is a kind simplification of the turmoil that is really going on with her and playing out down in Esrolia EDIT: AND UP IN TARSH. It’s a short circuit like something in Aeschylus. Mere sati would be almost a relief. But this is cold earth talking. We know that something more than logic comes in to repair the system of the world.

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