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  • #17072
    Profile photo of Harald Smith
    Harald Smith
    Spectator

    I’m trying to determine the number and location of the Malani clans.
    Based on the sources I have available, the ones I can identify are:

      Original Malani clans:
      – the Orleving – Ormthane Vale above the Oakland Back; enemies of the Varmandi.
      – the Isolting – Desoria region and northern Larnste Hills including Two Ridge Fort; the king’s clan I believe.
      Added from Colymar:
      – the Lysang – southern Larnste Hills (south of Larnste’s Table) including Redbird village and part of central Arfritha vale
      – the Namolding – east of Boranini/Arfritha River in Arfritha vale and up into the Brambleberry Hills

    Questions:
    1) were there only two clans in the Malani? Or are there other unnamed/unknown ones in Stael’s Hills, around Greenstone, etc?
    2) are these the right locations for these clans?
    3) any ideas on how the Malani relate to the newly added Lysang and Namolding or vice versa? Considered equals? Tributary subordinates? Suppressed rivals? (I realize YGWV, but figured I’d see how others have approached them.)

    Any thoughts appreciated!

    #17086
    Profile photo of Tim Ellis
    Tim Ellis
    Spectator

    From what I remember of “The Fall of the House of Malan” the Lismelder tribe were formed from a breakaway section of the Malani, so original Malan clans include the Poss and the Greydogs – but I was more concerned with what was going on in my clan to worry to much about the others…

    As a general rule, Id think Clans joining an existing tribe are considered roughly equal. If they are transferring from another Tribe, they must feel the move is an improvement, and the receiving tribe presumably sees a benefit in accepting them. But inter-clan rivalries can exist within a Tribe, so it’s always possible that someone will see the newcomers as taking their traditional role, or see an opportunity to demand tribute from new neighbours, especially if boundary changes are involved…

    #17101
    Profile photo of Bohemond
    Bohemond
    Spectator

    Did the Poss and the Greydogs break away as clans, or were they formed by those who left the Malani as individual bloodlines? The impression that I had was that Indrodar was the founder of the Greydogs.

    #17109
    Profile photo of Harald Smith
    Harald Smith
    Spectator

    “As a general rule, Id think Clans joining an existing tribe are considered roughly equal. If they are transferring from another Tribe, they must feel the move is an improvement,…”

    Except that in the case of the Lysang and Namolding, the Lunars severed them from the Colymar and transferred them to the Malani (as a reward to the Malani for staying neutral during Starbrow’s Rebellion and punishing the Colymar for joining it).
    However, I think the Lysang and maybe the Namolding had been taken over by the Colymar at some point in the past. So maybe they never really liked being Colymar?

    #17113

    The Tree Triarchy started out as Malani clans, but one clan was destroyed/merged into the Antorling/Apple Clan. In Fall of the House of Malan these clans were founded by three brothers, with Namold being the sole survivor by the time the Malani split came up.

    IIRC they really did not like the Varmandi, so sharing a tribe with them may have been viewed as suboptimal. On the other hand, staying with Malan and his even madder son…

    Ingo Tschinke and friends came up with a German consensus of clan names that even produced two RQ3 scenario booklets. While Ingo’s material certainly influenced later authors about the Malani, most data probably isn’t canonical. I can still look it up if you want me to.

    #17117
    Profile photo of Harald Smith
    Harald Smith
    Spectator

    Joerg, yes, if you have any additional information about the Malani, even non-canonical, that would be useful as I’m trying to build up some background on surrounding clans for my Colymar campaign.

    #17119
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    OK, in 1621 the Malani have six clans:
    Isolting
    Orleving
    Lysang
    Namolding
    Plus another clan in Desoria and another between the Creek and Stael’s Hills. I can’t recall their names off hand but will try to look them up.

    #17122
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    Aha, the name of the clan along the Creek is the Blue Fox clan.

    A few other things from my notes. After the death of Amalda Edrufsdotter, the Malani were nearly eliminated as an independent tribe and failed to elect a new king for nearly a year. In 1627, the Malani had only four clans, having lost two to the Colymar in 1626 (when Queen Leika builds the Colymar into the dominant tribe of Sartar in the wake of the Battle of the Queens). However, later that year, an adventuring Wind Lord named Vailor Blue Fox was acclaimed the new king with the support of Prince Argrath.

    #17126
    Profile photo of Harald Smith
    Harald Smith
    Spectator

    Thanks for the added information Jeff! Leaves one unnamed clan in Desoria region.
    Is Vailor Blue Fox from the Blue Fox clan?

    #17127
    Profile photo of Alex Ferguson
    Alex Ferguson
    Spectator

    Is your name not “Blue Fox”, then?
    No, it’s “Vailor”.
    That’s going to cause a little confusion.
    Mind if we call you “Blue Fox” to keep it clear?

    The German model seems to be based on there being 8 clans, but I can only find mention of seven names in total: the five above, plus the Arsgol and the Pant. Hauberk Jon is said in HoW to have been a chief of the Arsgol. Of course, if one wishes to reconcile these, perhaps one or two additional clans were lost between 1613 and ’21. (To lose two clans might be regarded as a misfortune; to lose four looks like carelessness.)

    The question of the status of “new” clans is an interesting one. Notionally, tribal rings are voluntary, and based on equality between the participants. In practice… politics happens. The “improvement” here may be over the alternative of “or else you’ll have the Provincial Army to deal with”. And likewise, a certain amount of triumphalism from the gainers and resentment from the transferred may obtain, especially in the short term. That might continue for a while if there’s a stable, quasi-dynastic arrangement amongst the older clans (or perhaps not so quasi, depending on what their kingship rite is). Or if there’s general prejudice against the newcomers, that persists over time. But in the long run, it’s not an efficient way to “suppress” them. If you want to really shaft your neighbours, you’d much rather be unfounding/breaking up/destroying them (chose most apt term according to desired level of violence or euphemism). Not by giving them a say in your tribe’s government — even one you might be able to temporarily negate by a powerful king, a bit of block voting, or such means.

    #17129
    Profile photo of Harald Smith
    Harald Smith
    Spectator

    “HoW” being ??? Not finding the acronym right off hand.
    Where does the name “Pant” appear? Or is that unpublished material?
    I’m thinking 8 clans seems a lot for small territory, though maybe 7 fits when Lysang/Namolding added. To your point on politics and tribal arrangements, a shift from 5 to 7 clans is enough to tip balance in a 3-2 faction split, to a 3-4 faction split. You wouldn’t necessarily get that with 8 clans, though it could shift a 4-2 split to an even 4-4 split where little gets done.

    #17131
    Profile photo of Alex Ferguson
    Alex Ferguson
    Spectator

    Sorry, my bad, I was unthinkingly transcribing the acronym from the webpage I was referring to. It’s Heroes of Wisdom, one of the aforementioned Ingo&co works that Joerg mentioned. I believe the Pant are mentioned there too, if my second-hand googling is any indication.

    #17132
    Profile photo of Jeff Richard
    Jeff Richard
    Keymaster

    As far as future Chaosium publications are concerned, are six clans of the Malani in 1621 (consistent with a tribal population of 7,500), and four clans as of 1627 (with a population of about 5,000 or so). None of the clans were ever named Pant.

    Alex is referring to “Heroes of Wisdom” a freeform set in Jonstown from about 20 years ago.

    #17136
    Profile photo of Harald Smith
    Harald Smith
    Spectator

    Thanks all!
    So I’ve got these in the period 1613-1621:

    – the Orleving – Ormthane Vale above the Oakland Back; enemies of the Varmandi.
    – the Isolting – northern Larnste Hills including Two Ridge Fort, maybe part of Desoria; the king’s clan I believe.
    – the Blue Fox – between the Creek and Stael’s Hills
    – one other unnamed clan – in Desoria, presumably along the Creek

    Added from Colymar:
    – the Lysang – southern Larnste Hills (south of Larnste’s Table) including Redbird village and part of central Arfritha vale
    – the Namolding – east of Boranini/Arfritha River in Arfritha vale and up into the Brambleberry Hills

    The Malani king in the period ca.1618-1626 is Amalda Edrufsdotter, a Humakti and daughter of prior king Edruf Strongbreath.
    I think she and her father were from Isolting?
    Presuming a rivalry with the Orleving for power, Edruf and Amalda added the Lysang and Namolding to the Malani tribe with Lunar support, and have ‘encouraged’ and rewarded them for raids on Colymar territory to help solidify/cement their power.

    #17144
      So the Ernalda Greenstone Temple lies on Orleving land -I guess- as it is smack dab in Ormthane Vale? We understand now a bit more why the Varmandi were so anxious to get this land back, don’t we?!?
      Why not name the sixth clan Argsol (or Pant)? What is its name?
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